TCP082: Data Driven Training with XR featuring Tony Bevilacqua of Cognitive3D

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For more information please visit gainadvisors.com this is Tony Bevalacqua, founder and CEO of Cognitive3, and you're listening to Skip on the Tech Chef Podcast.

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All right, enough of the puns.

We have been talking a lot about XR and specifically its use case scenarios in the hospitality industry.

The number one question I get back are questions about roi.

In order to show roi, you need to have data.

My guest on the show today, Tony Bevalacqua, founder and CEO of Cognitive3D has created the tool.

Just for that, Tony created this product, a spatial analytics platform that gathers data from virtual and augmented reality experiences in new ways and turns them into actionable insights.

Specifically, Cognitive3D helps companies measure human behavior with 3D simulations.

Prior to founding Cognitive3D, Tony founded and exited another startup that focused on revenue optimization and data analytics for enterprise customers.

Through use of immersive technology, Cognitive3D identified an incredible opportunity to collect spatial intelligence, leveraging virtual, augmented and mixed reality devices as a vehicle for data collection.

Today, their technology provides an innovative approach to consumer Research which enables brands to develop better product strategy and understand consumer behaviors through a unique, quantitatively measured platform.

Their enterprise workforce customers are defining spatial objectives to conduct training simulations with clearer results to reduce injury, improve safety, and measure efficiency.

Let the data geekiness begin.

Data, data, data.

I am a data guy, and that is all that businesses are worried about today, right or wrong.

When I start talking to operators about implementing XR technologies, the very first question I get is, well, what kind of data can I get from it and how can I use it?

Tony, my friend, this is exactly why I brought you on this show as you have a very unique product and approach to this problem.

Thank you so much for joining us on the Tech Chef today.

Hey, Skip, thanks for having me.

You know data roi, right?

You need to hit that and you know ROI with your.

With your deployments.

Absolutely.

I mean, that's the first question you get is especially in hospitality, the area that I concentrate the most in, you know, there's very tight margins in.

So ROI is critical to making decisions on new products, new strategies, et cetera.

Can you share a little bit about your journey leading into the founding of cognitive 3D and really what inspired you to venture into spatial analytics and immersive technologies?

Yeah, for sure.

So I'm the founder and CEO of Cognitive3D.

I'm nine years into my journey at this company.

It's a very long time.

Prior to this, I was the chief product officer at a company called Kinetic.

We had an analytics product in market primarily in the mobile category, and we're addressing games, entertainment of mobile apps, those types of things.

Through that, I got really early exposure to what was going on in the virtual reality industry.

Got to try out a really cool dev kit from these folks called Oculus, and ultimately saw a real greenfield opportunity to build something net new for the next generation of computing.

And for me, there was a lot of opportunity to rethink the problem, deliver new value, deliver new solutions in an entire entirely new landscape of computing.

And in the mobile space, I was building a lot of the same.

We're collecting behavioral data about what people are doing inside the headset, how they're behaving, how they move through space, what is the things that they're doing.

And a lot of how it applies to your audience, Skip, is that we can start measuring what people are doing in these training simulations.

These different types of categories work and understand the human performance element of what's going on in those environments.

Well, that's what particularly interested me in your product.

First of all, I'm a data guy, as I said earlier at the top of the show.

But, you know, transferring those experiences into real life data that you can act upon is very intriguing to me.

I think we had a discussion about how I'm helping a company build out a restaurant training VR program.

And obviously you want to bring as much data as you possibly can back into the platform from not just the interaction with the user which we're going to talk about, because you get some pretty cool features in your software, but also facial tracking and just inflection of tone of voice.

There's so much you can do once you really start thinking about it and applying, you know, some of those, those techniques to the data that you get in.

And this goes above and beyond LMS systems, which, you know, which is really why I'm interested in VR training.

They ha.

It has a very specific roi.

But when you really start considering the data behind the very unique data points that you can get from VR training, that I think is where this thing just lights up to the nth degree.

Yeah, I mean, training in the hospitality space is inherently difficult.

It's difficult in all frontline worker focused jobs.

And VR offers a really unique opportunity to deliver things in a very consistent way to a large amount of your audience that maintains your brand's reputation, your brand's expectations with your end customers.

And I think that, you know, when cognitive 3D steps into the equation, it's about measuring, you know, the different types of inputs that we can collect from these training experiences and making sure that we measure and maintain that level of quality that we expect from our workforce that's out in the field working with our customers every single day.

And so that's really kind of our role in a training and simulation, you know, type of situation is to come in and provide that measurement capability.

When we think about soft skills and, you know, kind of these frontline worker type roles, the opportunity to train somebody really, really well takes a lot of like one on one time.

VR introduces scalability in terms of being able to scale that in a very consistent way across your audience and also giving your frontline workers, your folks out in the field the opportunity to get some repetitions on how things should be done in a variety of different situations.

And Tony, you mentioned earlier, first of all, nine years in this industry is impressive because most people view it as a very startup type of industry, even though it's not that's that's a misconception.

It's been around for a very long time.

I think what we need to do is plant the base here and talk about, you know, who are some of your biggest clients.

Because you've been around so long, you have established a pretty darn good reputation in the industry.

Yeah, thanks, I appreciate that.

I mean, I can't speak to every single client that we have today, but I can speak to a few that are kind of interesting and also been made public in the last year or so.

You know, one of the companies that we support today is Walmart.

You know, Walmart's really interesting in that they collect, that they deliver training to a large, large audience kind of across the United States.

And it really gives them an opportunity to understand and quantify, like, you know, the processes and the ways that they're supposed to be delivered to a very, very large audience.

And, you know, our role in that is just to measure the employee compliance, you know, did the work get completed correctly and, you know, put it into the LM and make sure that those things get done correctly as well.

Yeah.

So, I mean, basically with those types of environments, you have a lot of opportunity to measure at scale and on a completely unattended basis, which I think is also important.

It's pretty cool that, I mean, Walmart is not a tiny customer at all.

And obviously they see the impact of using VR for training purposes.

But can you also share a success story where cognitive 3D analytics made a significant impact on a business or a project?

Significant impact?

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, every single day.

Right.

So, you know, we work in a few primary categories, so I'll cover that real quick.

We work in training and simulation, which is really our bread and butter, where we've helped measure and scale programs.

We work in two different ways in training and simulation.

We work on early roi, so return on investment and helping people build, construct and demonstrate value from their programs.

A lot of what I find in the XR industry is that folks are, are struggling to demonstrate that early value proposition on how do we acquire content, how do we buy headsets and roll this stuff out?

It's not cheap, right?

But when you start looking at the actual value proposition that you can present to your workers and some of the tangible inputs and outputs of these programs, you can build a really great business case on how this is going to solve major problems for your business.

So when we talk about training and simulation, we really often work on the ROI side first, helping our program manager figure out how to build and scale Their program.

And then we work on kind of the later stage program, which is like, how do we deliver the program at scale and solve that problem of how do we authenticate the user to the headset, how do we deliver the content, right.

And then how do we measure those outcomes and put them in places that our employees and our workforce expect them to be?

So we kind of have that multifaceted element of the early program and then the later stage growth and scaling part of the program as well.

So spatial analytics.

We talked a lot about training today.

I mean, are you using it for anything else?

For, for instance, being able to walk through a, a digital twin or a potential build out and you know, look at design layouts of the venue, of the, we'll say hotels or conference centers or resorts, things like that.

Oh, you got it, absolutely.

You know, second category here would be really what we call consumer research, right.

Consumer research for us is typically Archite engineering and construction.

So taking a digital twin, being able to put it in the headset and measuring your audience, right?

What do they look at, what captures and keeps their attention, how do they move through space?

And being able to use those insights to potentially inform decision making that you might have on the physical elements of how you construct a space or how you renovate an environment.

We also work with companies around, like planograms, product placement, product design, right?

So when you think about product design, you might think about like vehicle management, manufacturing, right.

And testing, like what vehicle designs work best, you know, what can your ideal customer figure out about your new design and what can we learn about that to inform the design moving forward?

On the planogram side, being able to test end caps, product placement and product design, packaging, to be able to kind of figure out what works and what doesn't, both on the alignment of your product on the shelf, but also against your competitors on that shelf as well.

So there's lots of different ways that you can use data to kind of inform some decision making that you need to make in the real world.

Because you can get really great specificity when you think about consumer research.

You get into things like eye tracking, right?

Being able to see like what people look at, what captures and keeps their attention.

Maybe even more importantly, like, what did they not look at?

Like, what are the things that they kind of ignored or didn't pay attention to?

You know, put a large water feature in the middle of your hotel.

Like, is that, is that the showcase?

Is that what captures and keeps people's attention?

You might be surprised, you know, on some of the insights that you find when you start running an audience through a simulation of a space that you plan on building.

Love that concept.

A lot of restaurants are currently concentrating on like the restaurant of the future and really coming up with ways of, you know, streamlining technology, look, feel, design, et cetera.

And this would be a great way to be able to get real time analytics of, you know, what is important to the guest.

Obviously there's nothing like actually being there, but this is the next best thing.

Anybody who's had a VR headset on and is experienced walking through a digital twin certainly knows that's the case.

Sorry.

I would just point out that it's also kind of a multifaceted investment as well.

Right.

Like if you build a digital twin in the early phases of your program and then go out and build the store, you really have the foundation for the training and simulation kind of use cases in the future.

Right.

And we've seen a lot of that where a program begins on the construction of a new facility.

The digital twin informs design, the layout of the line, you know, maybe some of the, you know, food service elements.

And then, you know, from there you've got the perfect foundation to deliver your training in a very digital way as well.

Can you actually go back and repeat and kind of, you know, obviously there's, there's data analytics behind, you know, what people are looking at.

But can you repeat a playback of a user experience in your platform?

Yeah, for sure.

I mean, so cognitive 3D, we kind of rethought what analytics should look like for these 3D driven environments.

A lot of analytics are charts and graphs.

And so cognitive 3D really focuses on 3D based representations of what's going on inside the headset.

And so one of our kind of flagship products is called Scene Explorer.

And Scene Explorer allows you to do a one to one replay of exactly what the user did, how they behaved and how they moved through that environment, what tools they used, what they picked up and engaged with, what they did with their head, their eyes.

And you can use all of those inputs for assessment.

Right.

So the after action review kind of acts as what we call a proof of work, right, that the user put the headset on and did some things.

Right.

Once you've got that proof of work, you can then assess that behavior to be able to see like, was the user compliant with safety protocols that we might have?

Did they demonstrate good food safety?

Did they maintain eye contact with our customer when they were having a difficult interaction?

There's lots of different ways that you can use these different inputs to ask specific questions that are representative of skills or qualities of service that you expect within your business.

Okay, so I'm pretty sure that every single one of my Californian clients are sitting and listening to this, going, okay, with all these emerging technologies and all this data that's coming out, how are you ensuring user privacy and data security and mixing that with the analytics you need to spit out?

Yeah, I'll talk about privacy first.

I think informed consent is incredibly important and some states are more aggressive about informed consent than others.

California comes to mind.

Mind.

Massachusetts comes to mind.

As folks that kind of have bleeding edge privacy frameworks and legislation.

Cognitive 3D, we have some internal tools to be able to assess and get that informed consent.

We have something called the XR Privacy Framework, which is actually an open source framework which allows you to acquire the rights to record the session and collect the data.

Most businesses, though, we often see that they work it into the employment agreement or do some sort of written or in headset consent for the collection of data as part of the training experience.

So it really kind of depends on what your corporate policies are.

But, you know, ultimately, you know, privacy is important and we should, we should collect it.

And Cognitive3D provides some tools to be able to make sure that we do it properly.

Security is a totally separate but very similar topic.

It's probably one of our number one jobs outside of providing the insights, is keeping the data secure for our customers.

So we do SOC 2 type 2 compliance.

That means that we're externally audited on a very regular basis.

Our data is stored and keyed properly, and we also offer advanced deployment techniques as well.

We can do things like dedicated installs on premises installs, those types, things to kind of meet whatever your company policies might be for external IT security.

Tony, we're going to take a short break, but when we come back, we're going to talk more about really the industry perspective from the cognitive 3D side, where the industry is headed, the trends that you see coming out, and how cognitive 3D is really going to accomplish some of these unique challenges that we're about to face.

So everybody hold on one second.

We'll be right back.

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Tony, we're back.

And you know, I want to get into, you know, some of the industry challenges and you know, some of the trends that we're seeing come about.

You are not new to this industry.

You've seen a lot of technologies come and go with the rise of VR and AR and just not just in hospitality, but in, just in General.

How does cognitive3D help brands adopt and measure the success of these technologies?

Things have really changed in this industry.

It's getting a lot easier to adopt these programs.

I think it's still really difficult to measure the success of these programs.

And so, you know, we find that a lot of innovation teams have no problem going out, buying some headsets, maybe getting some initial content.

But the part that typically is the challenge, the part that we can step in and provide some real early value in a program is making sure that there's a future.

Right, right.

Being able to collect the right data, demonstrate the right, you know, maybe internal study about how this technology could be used, how it could be scaled, and how it could apply to some sort of cost savings, efficiency, improvements in process, improvements in satisfaction, whatever your APIs are ultimately going to be.

Cognitive 3D provides the tools to be able to answer a large majority of those questions, but we also provide the data science capability to actually analyze and answer those questions on the part of our clients.

We've recently been doing what we call the ROI program.

And so these are six or 12 month programs where we actually take your existing content, your headsets, whatever you're trying to deploy and market and build an actionable study around your data collection strategy.

The outcomes that we can get, we can collect from these environments.

And to kind of give you a bit of a weapon internally, right?

Of like, this is the data, these are the results we see.

If we apply it to big problem, big business, problem X, we're going to see the following results, right?

And we think we should grow the program by this particular size.

That's really where we've been stepping into programs at the early, earliest stages.

And that's like pre Walmart, Walmart's obviously doing something that's like huge, right?

That's a later stage, you know, let's help you scale type of thing, right?

Like how are, you know, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of employees interpreting this program out in the wild?

And the earlier stages is more about like, how do we grow this into something that impacts the entire, entire business.

So you've been in the industry Like I said for a while, you know, and the XR industry has a evolved just drastically.

And this is probably a very unfair question given the era of rapid development, but where do you see it headed in the next five to 10 years?

That's a really tough question.

It is.

I knew you could handle it, though.

Yeah.

I mean, I started the company nine years ago and a lot has happened.

Like, there's been a lot of evolution in technology.

You know, I thought when Oculus bought, or Facebook bought Oculus, that the rocket ship was taken off.

Right.

The reality was there's so much technology work needed to get done to create something that was actually adoptable at scale.

Just in the last, like two to three years, things have really changed.

Right.

With the adoption of all in one headsets, six degrees of freedom, super high quality.

You know, the comfort and sickness issues are starting to get mitigated.

We're seeing a lot of like, really positive movement in the right direction for overall adoption.

But when I think about the future, said 5 to 10 years.

Glasses, glasses all the way.

You know, the idea that virtual augmented mixed reality today, these are different devices.

In a lot of cases, you're starting to see that merge together with Quest three, where you started to see kind of a mixed reality mode into a fully encompassing headset.

I think the future is kind of these all in one glasses like Orion, that can be able to deliver the full spectrum of immersion or giving you information or insights when you need it in your work.

That's where I see the hardware side of the equation going.

But my overall perspective on the whole space is that this is about giving superpowers to the people.

I think that's ultimately what immersive technology does.

It gives us data at our fingerprints.

It's one of these perfect modalities for this artificial intelligence future as well.

Empower us through.

Through vision, through hearing.

Well, you brought up a good point there.

We talk VR all day long, but we have not talked ar.

Your platform is not specific.

I mean, it can adapt to anything, correct?

Yeah, absolutely.

We support Unity, we support Unreal.

We're building out a new SDK right now for Apple Vision Pro.

So I think it's interesting that most people don't understand that they're gaming engines, but they ended up really being the core of how this technology is being developed and released to the marketplace.

It doesn't matter if it's gaming or not.

We were just at its act.

And goodness gracious.

I mean, the military is using all of this stuff for simulation.

So they're Using gaming engines.

And that's really those two platforms, Unity and Unreal, are the two biggest ones out there that are really having a pretty heavy marketplace as far as development process.

Are there certain barriers to adoption of spatial analytics in industries like healthcare, retail, education, hospitality?

And what kind of barriers would those look like?

Yeah, I think the barriers are really around content less about us.

I mean our product can be integrated in anything if there's a will and there's a way.

Today we typically support custom content creation, right?

So people that are outgoing and building custom scenarios that are for specific business problems.

That's our typical use case of customers that come to us and they've built either a360 video or, or fully 3D immersive environment that is specific to their business.

We come in, we can measure that.

Where we're spending a lot more of our time now is the repeatable content.

The more generic modules we're partnering with people, we're spending time on what we call partner enablement, which means that for the content providers that are out there building repeatable solutions, things that you can just buy off the shelf.

Cognitive 3D has a new program that we've been rolling out called Cognitive 3D Ready.

The idea is that it's a Pre integration with cognitive 3D into your generic content where when a customer wants to buy, they actually have the opportunity to get that analytics data right away if they would like it.

So we're trying to reduce all the barriers to access this stuff, make the market more efficient and then also support some of these authoring and environments that we're starting to see really take off as well.

You have obviously have a back end dashboard for people to look at and get all this data analytics from.

But do you also have an API that if I happen to be that CIO that just wants it presented in a different way, can I get that data out of that and maybe force it into my LMS system?

Yeah, you got it.

On the LMS side, we actually transmit results.

So you can do the assessments in the Cognitive 3D dashboard, you set up all of the behaviors that you're looking for.

The reason you do the assessment in cognitive 3D is because can assess other stuff.

Right.

Most LMSs, they're kind of dumb, like they don't really know beyond past complete, you know, and failure, like they really don't understand all the gaps in between.

We can assess eye tracking, we can assess user behavior, what people are doing, how they move through space, the activities they completed, and assess in a much more Deep and fundamental, more human way, honestly.

And then we could transmit that to the lms.

What we don't want to do is create an island, right, where it's like the VR stuff is completely separate from the rest of the business.

That's where we see POCs and pilots die, right?

Go off and try to do it as something completely separate from the business.

When they've got tens or hundreds of millions of dollars invested in L and D already, we want to capitalize on that.

We want VR to just be an extension of what we're doing and learning today.

And so cognitive 3D can transmit those results into the LMS and actually mark off modules just like any other type of content.

We do provide the APIs as you mentioned as well, though.

So if you're building your own dashboards, your own capabilities, some of my customers have Power BI dashboards that they like to have that are separate from the cognitive 3D system.

We empower those capabilities as well.

Well, I think you hit on two very, very important things.

First of all, not being an island, therefore, because there's not one enterprise client I've got out there that would think about adopting a product where it's got its own data set, its own dashboard.

They want it all.

They want.

A single pane of glass is what they want.

And you've kind of taken that to the next level and you've opened up the architecture in order to be able to allow that data to flow back into the LMS system.

But the other big thing that you hit on that people are missing that have not even looked at VR training is the fact that you are filling those gaps rather than a pass fail complete, you know, you are collecting data that you can't collect any other way.

So I think that is a huge advantage.

Obviously, I'm preaching to the choir here, but, you know, as I start to talk to business leaders why VR is so important for the training aspects and the advantages it brings to the marketplace, they start to realize, holy cow, we've been missing out on all these data points.

And then their mind starts thinking, okay, okay, what if, what if we could take that data after somebody goes through training and then have our AI engine potentially take that data and figure out what, what is the best position for them?

You know, maybe they've done all this personality training and behavioral training with a, an AI customer and realize, you know, they're not really good with people.

There's two options there.

Either train them up or B, maybe you move them into another position within the organization.

So I think there is so much capability that is possible by collecting all of this data.

You touched on a really important point there, which is really this opportunity around getting very predictive and prescriptive about the insights that we're collecting and getting a little bit more personal about how content and training is being delivered.

I think that one of the superpowers of this technology is meeting the employee or the person in the headset where they are in terms of skillset and providing them just enough assist to be able to get those reps and build those muscles internally so they can get better at each of the individual skill sets that they need to do to succeed in their role.

And I think that immersive technology and the data collection behind it powers some of the more, you know, kind of sophisticated insights that you could possibly garner from these types of environments.

I think it's also one of those things where, you know, when you acknowledge this to internal stakeholders, if we're just going to mark things as pass fail, I think, you know, internal stakeholders also look at that and say, well, this is much more expensive.

Why is it any different, you know, if you're, if you're not going to collect any of these other data points?

I think it's a superpower when you start to talk about the level of insight you can get from your employees and then also drive higher levels of performance.

As we're talking about advantages and unique advantages.

How can spatial analytics and immersive technologies address societal challenges or enhance accessibility?

Well, first off, when you do data collection through something like cognitive 3D, there's really no bias in our assessment.

Right.

And honestly, there's a lot of bias in human condition.

And I think that, that, you know, when you create and deliver standard ways of delivering knowledge, I think that there's a greater opportunity for people to succeed.

I think that these headsets and capabilities kind of open up.

I, you know, I'm a huge fan of like the Matrix movies and stuff like that.

And I'm sure you remember the scene when Trinity, Trinity needs the, the helicopter program and she just goes ahead and downloads it, you know, and boom, she's a helicopter pilot.

I wouldn't say it's exactly the same kid thing because we're not doing brain computer interfaces or anything like that.

But the opportunity to have knowledge at your fingertips on a wide variety of categories of things is a huge superpower for this technology.

Oh, there's nothing better.

You know, I've got a new set of very high end enterprise AR glasses and you know, I see a New APK come down, and I plug that into my computer, download the APK into my device, and literally, I feel like I have that superhuman matrix capability of all of a sudden, I have all of this knowledge at my fingertips I never had before.

So.

So we're not that far off from it.

I don't know.

Somebody like Elon Musk is going to figure it out, if he hasn't done so already, I'm telling you.

All right, so we're winding things down here.

Let's break away and have some fun.

So what's your favorite XR application or experience that you've encountered recently?

Okay, so I'm trying to spend a little bit more time on health recently.

So I play something called Les Mills Body Combat App.

It's a bit of an older app, but it'll get you burning real fast, so definitely check that one out.

Another application that I like to spend some time on, it's kind of underrated, to be honest, is something called Headspace.

Headspace has a mobile app.

This is all about meditation.

Those types of elements.

Really interesting application.

Also, take a look at it.

Graphics are beautiful, and, you know, it's just like a really cool, you know, kind of space that is the complete opposite spectrum of Body Combat.

All right, so if you share it, I have to share, too.

I think specifically on the.

On the health side of it.

So supernatural.

That's probably the most popular out there as far as.

Yeah, for sure.

Fitness app.

And also Tripp.

Tripp is a great meditation.

Oh, my goodness.

You have no idea how many times I've actually used this before.

Walking to a meeting, before I've given a presentation on stage, trying to get to sleep at night when I've got a.

You know, my mind is full of a million things.

You know, being a business owner like yourself, I mean, you've got so much going through your head, and you need to be able to decompress, and VR is a pretty interesting tool in order to be able to do that.

And we're seeing that used on the medical side of it.

We're seeing it used for PTSD treatment.

We're seeing it for a lot of things.

So this is not just us, you know, geeking out in our Oculus world.

This is really there.

There's proven science and facts behind some of this stuff.

All right, one more question for you.

When you're not working on cognitive 3D projects, what hobbies or activities help you recharge and stay inspired?

Okay, well, I.

I work way too much, and I travel a lot.

But my main kind of outlet is I like doing home renovations.

So I'm working on a bathroom right now.

So putting in a shower, doing the tile, you know, all the kind of things that go along with that.

So that's one of them.

And then I just like to take care of my property as well.

So I mow the lawn and, you know, garden those types of things.

So those are the things that kind of keep me grounded.

So the question is, when you were redoing your bathroom, did you actually use augmented reality to measure stuff out and figure, you know what?

That is a huge gap.

Thank you for pointing that out.

I did not do that.

I actually took a Sharpie and just drew on the floor.

I roughed it in the old school way.

Well, Tony, thank you so much for joining the show.

This is fascinating today.

I love talking data and you and I certainly have a very interesting aspect in regards to the industry that we're in and, you know, the data and analytics.

We're looking at things a different way and being able to take, you know, what appears to be a recreational tool or application, that's kind of some of the feedback I'm getting.

But then be able to provide real data on top of that with the ROI and be able to prove out how effective this technology really is in a business scenario.

So thank you again for joining us.

I'll tell you what, cognitive 3D is very unique in its space.

As your journey progresses to creating your XR strategy, you're going to want to make sure that this is one of the tools in your toolbox.

If you would like to reach out to me or the show, you can do so via Everything Social, SkipKimple or everything at Magic 8 Tech.

This includes X, Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

You can always go to the website@SkipKimple.com for all of the archive notes and all the archive shows.

They're all posted on that website.

You can also hear these episodes on the Magic gate website@magicgate.com and of course you can email me at any point in time.

@SkipAgicate.com we have the holiday season upon us which conflicts with the release of the next episode.

So I'm going to do some throwback episodes over the next couple of weeks.

On January 7th we will return with a fresh episode from Mike Blake to start the year off with a bang.

If you don't know Mike, he has been the global CIO at Hyatt Hotels, the CEO of HTNG and CTO of the ahla.

Currently he is the VP of IT at Kemper Sports.

If you know Mike, you know it's going to be very entertaining and it's going to be hard to tell where the conversation will end up.

This show is going to be a blast.

I'm finishing off the week by heading up to Wisconsin for Christmas.

So this Florida lizard boy will have to suffer through some pretty cold weather with his thin blood.

A very Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy New Year, or any other holiday you are celebrating between now and January.

Having said that, meet me back here on January 7th.

And please, please, please stay safe, stay healthy and stay hungry, my friends.